


blue's dceu meta (mostly wondertrev)

by blueincandescence



Series: #bluesaid [1]
Category: DCU, Wonder Woman (2017)
Genre: F/F, F/M, Gen, Meta
Language: English
Status: In-Progress
Published: 2017-07-22
Updated: 2018-03-01
Packaged: 2018-12-05 10:32:03
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Chapters: 17
Words: 12,257
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/11576265
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/blueincandescence/pseuds/blueincandescence
Summary: A place to stash all my Wonder Woman/DCEU-related meta because sometimes I lose things on tumblr.1: wondertrev + subverting born sexy yesterday2: steve trevor + childhood & backstory3: wondertrev + watch4: wondertrev + possibilities5: wondertrev + timeline6: wondertrev + the eighties7: wonder woman + chief8: wondertrev + consent9: wonder woman + blame10: wonder woman + why so christian?11: wonder woman + too much steve trevor?12: wondertrev + chris pine in WW213: justice league + non-spoilery thoughts14: wonder woman 2 + "new" love interest rumor15: wonder woman + comics recsFeel free to comment and/or swipe ideas for your own meta and fic!





	1. wondertrev + subverting born sexy yesterday

The awesome born sexy yesterday video is putting that trope on the forefront of everyone’s minds, which is great. Critique away!

I just wanted to point out a few of the ways Patty Jenkins, Gal Gadot, Chris Pine, and the writers subvert the worst aspects of the trope.

I’ll try to be as vague as possible but SPOILERS:

1\. Diana is not embarrassed by nudity of any kind. Yes, her outfit is revealing. BUT one guess as to who gets naked in this film. Hint: it’s not the person the trope usually applies to.

2\. Diana is untouched by a man by virtue of the plot – she’s never even seen one before. But the film makes a point of calling out her knowledge of sex. It even heavily implies that Diana takes charge of her own pleasure, be it via self-pleasure or bisexual/pansexual Diana ftw!

3\. Steve is her guide to the outside world, but so is Candy. Steve is her guide to the outside world, but never once is Diana abnormally impressed with his insights or his teaching moments. Ice cream vendor, though? He should be very proud.

4\. The born sexy yesterday trope is predicated on the idea that a woman falls in love with the first schlub she sees and worships him. That emphatically does not happen. In fact, it’s a running gag that Steve is trying to convince Diana that he’s above average. Only when he proves it to her – through his kindness and his bravery – does she fall for him.

5\. The thing that happens in the middle? Not the “prize” saved for the hero’s reward like it is usually is in the Born Sexy Yesterday trope.

So, yes, Diana is a fish out of water. Yes Gal Gadot is a stunner. But those two elements are not what make born sexy yesterday such an egregious violation of female agency. Wonder Woman does not exist to be taught by a mediocre man who she holds up as god’s gift than for no other reason than that he’s breathing near her.

Instead, she learns and teaches equally in reciprocation with a true partner–aka my favorite feminist fantasy trope.


	2. steve trevor + childhood & backstory

Wonder Woman is Diana’s movie and Steve Trevor has always been a foil, so I’m not mad in the slightest that there’s actually not a lot of backstory about him. But inquiring minds need to know! So here are some headcanons based on what we glean in the movie. No spoilers since it’s all conjecture.

 **Birth:** Chris Pine is 36, so if we go with that for Steve and the movie takes place in 1918, we have a birth year of 1882. Progressive Era! He would have been 11 when Frederick Jackson Turner’s frontier thesis eulogized the idea of “Go West, young man.” He would have grown up idolizing Buffalo Bill and Annie Oakley. Dime novel adventures and big tent circuses and baseball and moving pictures!

 **Birthplace:** His flat accent puts him somewhere in the Midwest. Since interviews say his character is inspired by Indiana Jones, let’s say he was born in ~~Indiana~~. Definitely a farm boy, but close enough to ~~Indianapolis~~ to get an education and a thirst for the world.

 **Family:** Steve may work alone but his buddies prove he isn’t a loner. Big families were common in his day, so it’s conceivable he grew up with a lot of relatives around. Maybe the Trevor farm is owned by his uncle, who has a few boys (*cough* reincarnated Steve *cough*).

His mother is a strong, smart former schoolteacher turned quasi-business woman (she turns the Trevor farm into a force with smart investments) who has a mutual respect for her husband but, based on Steve’s comment in the boat, it isn’t a love match. She is active in the city, belonging to the Women’s Christian Temperance Union, the American Woman Suffrage Association, and the Indianapolis Equal Suffrage Society, which had world peace as one of its core values. She hosted teas in their city home and Steve picked up a bunch of values that would later endear him to Etta Candy.

I can’t see Steve as anything but the youngest. Charming, lively, open to love, easy respect for women? Yeah, he grew up with a mess of older sisters. They spoiled him and tortured him and made sure he never questioned the fact that women are, like, people with distinct personalities and wills.

His father (William Stephen Trevor, maybe, named for the WW creator) is a career military man, possibly maxing out as a colonel. Wristwatches weren’t really a thing for men until after WWI, but military men adopted them in the 1800s. It’s conceivable his father fought for the North in the Civil War as a very young man, but he would have spent his career neck-deep in the Indian campaigns. (His people, indeed, Chief.)

The way Steve is, I can’t imagine his father as anything but honorable. I can see him sharing his grief at the horrors of war and the rights of natives to protect their own alongside his belief that a soldier follows orders to the letter but does what he can to deliver them in a “just” way.

He’s a complicated figure in Steve’s life, representing discipline and a stoic-ness Steve can’t relate to, “soft” as the women in his life have made him. As the only son, there would be a lot of expectations on Steve, ones that he desperately wants to fulfill and rebel against in equal measure. His father isn’t around much in Steve’s childhood, but when he is home is a very different place full of rules.

I don’t want this to go too long, so more on young man Steve later!

* * *

The always excellent @heckyeahstevetrevor has provided comics lore indicating that  **Oklahoma**  is the closest we’re going to get to a canon Steve Trevor place of birth!!!!! Of course, we’re all free to make up whatever backstory we want for movie!Steve. But I’m always a slut for canon, and I  _like_  the idea of Steve being an Okie (especially in modern AUs!). Plus, any excuse to nerd out over history. So I’m running with it and hope you do, too! 

_**Thoughts (aka, I researched so you don’t have to, but you should because it’s fun):** _

  * **Oklahoma:**  The Sooner State became one in 1907. Oklahoma Territory formed in 1890. Before then, it was known as Indian Territory — a rapidly shrinking territory chipped away by white settlers squatting on land that the government set aside for Native Americans.


  * **White Settlers:**  Perhaps Steve was born in another state (Kansas is right there! Say hi to the Kents!). His father would have spent significant time in Indian Territory as a military man, so maybe he set his eye on a choice bit of land and waited until he could legally move down the Trevor Farm. 7-year-old Steve may have stood at the border and watched 50,000 settlers pour into a new territory. (This is not to endorse the 1889 Land Grab, as legal does not mean morally right. But we’re talking about American history, so that caveat applies anytime, anywhere.) 


  * **Guthrie:**  The Trevor farm could have been located just outside of Guthrie, the first capital of Oklahoma. Guthrie was a boomtown and the Woman’s Christian Temperance Union was there to transform it into a mid-sized city as picturesque as any on the East Coast. For our purposes, we can imagine Mrs. Elizabeth Trevor leading the charge.


  * **Radical Ideas:**  Steve would have interacted with a diverse array of people in the new territory and would have encountered some very morally trying situations. He would have learned about empathy and humility and privilege early. Oklahoma was a hotbed for socialism, too, so radical ideas were never far from Steve Trevor’s ears.


  * **Suffrage:**  Speaking of, Oklahoma was one of the first states to have suffrage for women. And before statehood, women were already voting in local elections. The Oklahoma branch of the Woman’s Suffrage Association was a force, as you can imagine, and young Steve learned about strong, complex women at home and in public places.


  * **Modern Guthrie:**  The reason I chose Guthrie for Steve’s hometown is that, unlike Oklahoma City, Guthrie retains the architecture of the 1890s-1910s! IMAGINE reincarnated Steve walking around streets that feel  _more than familiar_. Always having a sense of deja vu. The new buildings around the old feeling oddly out of place. Too much fun to resist!



* * *

As a follow-up to my musings about Steve’s childhood (to recap: Indiana boy born in 1882 to a military father and suffragette mother who grew up with a bunch of older sisters), here’s some more conjecture about Steve’s backstory.

The evidence base I’m using for these imaginings come from:  
1\. Steve is a male feminist fantasy, so no fuckboi traits allowed  
2\. Steve is good at soldiering; “sir” comes very naturally to him  
3\. You can do something or you can do nothing, and Steve’s already tried nothing  
4\. Pine’s description of the character: “rogue-ish,” “cynical,” “realist,” “worldly,” “charming”  
5\. History and stuff

 **Education (1900-1905):** Steve is a smart cookie, so I can see him doing well in school and taking classes at a local university, at his mother’s insistence that he learn a few things about the world before the army fills his head with nonsense. At around 19, Steve would enroll in West Point, the United States Military Academy. It’ll be the first time he’s lived outside the Midwest/West — and the first time he’s seen the ocean. His, “Why wouldn’t I know how to sail?” comment makes me think he got teased at some point in his life for not knowing his way around the water. He probably played football and got really into the Army-Navy rivalry. Hazing was a big issue at this time, with the older classmen wanting to teach the “plebes” a lesson. Integrating southern and black cadets was also an issue.

 **Abridged Military Career (1905-1910):** After graduation, Steve would begin phase one of his military career. At this point in history, the US is caught between isolationism and imperialism, sending soldiers to the Philippines, Nicaragua, Mexico, etc. The last conflicts of the Indian Wars were also continuing. No glory, no honor. Steve grows disillusioned with the military. His father, though privately upset by imperialism, is nonetheless deeply disappointed when Steve takes an honorable discharge and announces his intention of seeing the world without a gun in his hand.

 **Rogue Explorer (1910-1915):** Let’s say it’s around 1910 when Steve sets off to see the world. He uses his natural charm, his smarts, and his military understanding of supply and trade routes to become a smuggler — but only to fund his travels and fun. Steve is a ladies man because he genuinely loves women. He falls for them on a regular basis and knows his mercurial nature well enough that he only pursues women who know what they’re about and can teach him a thing or twenty. He isn’t a heartbreaker; he’s spot of fun to be remembered fondly.

Steve meets Chief first and the two form a strong bond (one that acknowledges the heavy cultural baggage they left the US with). Steve meets Sameer next, probably because Sameer needs that face of Steve’s to pull off a con. The two begin to work together and bring Chief into their group. They meet up, go off on their own, meet back up — they see the world alone and together. Charlie they meet just as WWI is kicking off. He’s a soldier in the British military and their contact for sneaking in their smuggled goods. At first, the war is good for business. It’s the “do nothing” approach. Steve tells himself that smuggling goods is helping the boys on the front lines, he’s doing a service. Besides, the US is neutral. Why shouldn’t he be? Charlie re-joins the war effort first. Then Sameer offers his services to British Intelligence. Chief stays neutral, and they all understand. Steve, who can’t stand the horrors anymore, returns to the US.

 **Soldier-Pilot-Spy (1915-1918):** Piloting was just in its infancy when Steve begins his soldiering life again, but he takes to it like a duck to water. The US won’t officially join the war until 1917, but years before they’re offering pilot training and recruiting all the officers they can find in anticipation. That picture of Steve was probably taken in early 1917. After proving himself a competent pilot and a capable officer, British Intelligence would come knocking at his door on Sameer’s recommendation. As a white man and an officer, Steve would get an office in London, a personal secretary, and a place at the table with the brass. His father might indirectly find out his son is now a spy, not a soldier and have some thoughts about that ignoble line of work.

But Steve is good at it. He speaks enough languages (at least French and German) to be useful, and his natural charm makes him a valuable operative. He proves more than effective as a honeytrap. (see: scene with Dr. Poison). Spying is an ideal blend of his rogue-soldier dichotomy. While he’s proud of his success and emphatically does not want to suffer, he harbors a deep guilt that other men — better men — are bleeding and starving and dying in the trenches. He grows cynical and numb executing his duty. The armistice and the notebook recall him to life, giving him a mission that he can believe in. Diana, of course, awakens his idealism even further.


	3. wondertrev + watch

Just saw Wonder Woman for the second time and my WonderTrev feels have increased exponentially.

The watch, ugh, the watch!

1\. It’s heavily implied that Steve’s standards of honorability come from his father, that the watch was some kind of rite of passage marker between generations of soldiers. Steve entrusting Diana with the watch means so much.

2\. Time is a big theme with them, of course. “I wish we had more time,” Steve says. When Diana looks down at the watch in her hand, the time is something like 9:05. When she looks at it again in Paris a hundred years later, it’s still 9:05. Time stopped when Steve handed her his watch.

…I’ll be over here drowning in feels, NBD.

* * *

Upon further review, the spirit of this is possibly true, if not the times. No earlier than 8:55, Steve hands her the watch. No later than 9:05, Diana reviews the watch. That’s about the right time for the watch to have stopped when Steve dies, or the moment Diana unleashes her vengeful god powers.

I like the idea of Steve’s watch ticking away with her over the centuries. But I LOVE the idea of her hanging onto a watch that doesn’t work. A watch that’s, metaphorically, “gone and left her nothing.”

…I’M OKAY. THIS IS FINE.


	4. wondertrev + possibilities

So, you saw Wonder Woman. You felt graced by a romance between a woman and a man that was  _equal,_ soyou fell faster than Steve fell for Diana. Then the ending happened. As gorgeous as it was –  _ugh._ You’re thinking to yourself, why even bother shipping tragedy?

Oh, but  _think of the possibilities!_

It’s only been a week and the fix-it fics are going strong! The thing is, because this is DC comics, it’s not almost  _more_  unrealistic that fix-its  _wouldn’t_  be a thing. 

Here are some highlights to get the ideas churning.

 

**1\. Meddling from the gods.**

The gods are “dead,” sure, but I’m taking that to mean their influence and their corporeal forms are lessened. They still have some cosmic power to throw around. I maintain that Steve was sent to Diana for a reason, so why shouldn’t the gods continue to meddle after his death? 

 **The Ghost Option:** In my ficlet The Living, Steve appears to Diana at times like a ghost, mostly in her dreams. The concept is sad and angsty and sweet and awful. Perfectly wrenching.

 **The Champion Option:** Or maybe Diana finds out his soul has been claimed by the gods and goes to the Underworld to fight Hades to set his soul free, meaning he lives or gets to go to a paradise of sorts for heroes. 

 **The Resurrection Option:** Steve lives! Maybe he comes back right away, maybe he’s a reward from Zeus when Diana needs/deserves him most. If he’s modern, the fish-out-of-water role reversal is dynamite. If he’s resurrected through Ares’ meddling…well then we have a Winter Soldier dynamic to play with, don’t we?

 **The Reincarnation Option:**  Steve Trevor, born 1982, is a modern soldier-spy who is named after the war hero great-grandfather/uncle who he just happens to look exactly alike. Whodathunk? Questions abound! Does he remember his past life? Will he ever? The angst of Diana loving a man who is and isn’t Steve Trevor or Steve doubting that he could ever live up to his impossibly perfect past life enshrined in her memory…UGH!

I’m going to write a fic that combines at least three of these. Look out.

 

**2\. The Flash and Diana are about to be pals.**

I’m not a DC gal, minus Catwoman (who should be played by Rosario Dawson or Thandie Newton in the DCEU, full stop) so I’ll confess I have no idea how the Flash’s powers work. But I’ve picked up that there’s time travel and alternate universes involved. SO.

 **The Timehop Option:** Barry hears Diana’s story and, with her permission or not, rushes back in time to the second Steve pulls the trigger. He  _yanks_ Steve back into the future. Seems almost too easy, but these kids deserve it. Fish-out-of-water would be strong with this one. And Diana is a very different woman a hundred years later – who would be the naive, optimistic one now?

 **Alternative Universe Option:** Endless possibilities here.  _Something_ Barry does causes an alternative reality where Wondertrev can be explored, for fluff or for angst.

 **Quick Save Option:** Barry saves Steve and drops him off somewhere that takes him a little but to find Diana again. This doesn’t cause an alternative universe but is in fact what already happened. Diana buried Steve long ago, after lots of breakfasts. He at least got the chance to grow old with her.

 

**3\. Other/AU**

Did Steve have a parachute? Did he get amnesia? Did the ending not happen the way we saw and Steve never had to go up in the plane? Maybe he got picked up by aliens! Like I said, endless possibilities.

So go fic!!!


	5. wondertrev + timeline

I see a lot of posts about how short the time that Diana and Steve have together. And, yeah, it definitely feels that way. But there are 100% canon reasons to believe they had more than a few days together. The best evidence is Etta’s pronouncement that Steve has been missing for weeks. Long enough for him to be thought dead. Not checking in isn’t like him, so we can imagine awhile passed between stealing the notebook and arriving in London.

Thoughts:

 

**Themyscira**

The editing makes it seem like Diana leaves with Steve that night. But it’s probable it’s at least a few days.

After the beach battle, there had to be time to gather the Senators, mount a guard, get the lasso, and see to the dead.

Diana is getting her wound checked not looked at for the first time. Plus, Steve has had conversations with the nurse.

We didn’t see Antiope’s burial, but that doesn’t mean there wasn’t one before Diana left. The losses don’t seem as raw.

“We can’t keep him forever,” makes it sound like they have kept him for at least some time already.

 

**Boat Ride**

Sailing from Greece to England is not something you can do overnight, even with a ride. Because it goes from Diana falling asleep to Diana waking up, it seems like one night. But her hair is bound when they first set off and loose when they reached London.

They totally spent days together on that boat with nothing to do but get to know each other. Topics of conversation could include: the war, their childhoods, modern life, Greek myth, breakfast, flying, etc.

 

**London**

They arrive in London very early in the morning. Steve calls Etta. They spend the afternoon getting attired, attacked, and it’s implied they go back to the office before going to see the council (news of Steve’s return travels). It’s dark by the time they go to the pub to find Sameer and Charlie. So they spend the night in London.

The next day, they take a train late enough that ice-cream sellers are out. So you know Steve took Diana to breakfast and around the city. (Swoon!)

 

**Belgium**

This we know is two days, because that’s the deal. They sleep in the camp, get to the trenches, rescue the town all in the early morning/afternoon. By nightfall, they’re cleaned up and the town is out celebrating. That afternoon they would have had time to decompress. Then they, you know, dance and get it on. This is the last time Steve Trevor will ever sleep. (OH GOD, WHY) Then the gala and the battle.

 

So, it’s true. Steve and Diana only have four days together from arriving in London to the final battle.

But before then there is at most weeks that need to be accounted for. That’s still a quick time to fall for someone, but it gives some breathing room to believe in off-screen relationship development. More importantly, it gives a ton of leeway for missing scene fic!


	6. wondertrev + the eighties

So the rumors that [the  _Wonder Woman_  sequel treatment is set in the Cold War 80s with a probable return for Chris Pine](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fscreenrant.com%2Fwonder-woman-2-movie-setting-chris-pine%2F&t=YjgyNmFiOWUxYWE1ODliMDUwZWY2ZDZjOGU4NzVlNjllYWVjNzY1OSxOVDg0WUxsSg%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F162886512165%2Fwondertrev-the-eighties&m=1) definitely caught me off-guard. And, with most news outlets treating it as gospel, I’ve been forced to go through all the stages of grief. Here are my mixed-up emotions, The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly-style.

**The Good (Causes for Optimism)**

  * Wonder Woman sequel! Helmed by the same creative team! With Chris Pine returning! Like, HEARTEYES! IN PATTY JENKINS WE TRUST!
  * I LOVE THE 80s!!!!! Holy shit, do I love the 80s. Like,  _think of the aesthetic._  Gal Gadot with a  _mane_  of gloriously permed hair! The colors she would wear!  _The motherf-ing shoulder pads of greatness._ Oh, and nbd, just TOP GUN CHRIS PINE. Aviators. Members Only jacket.  _LORD HAVE MERCY ON MY OVARIES._
  * The MUSIC. I  _defy you_  to think of more wondertrev-inspired tunes than “Broken Wings,” “Love is a Battlefield,” “Time After Time,” “I Love You Always Forever,” and “TOTAL ECLIPSE OF THE HEART” —  _defy you_.
  * The Cold Goddamn War. I cannot tell you how  _fascinating_  the Cold War is. I am  _beside_  myself with glee. The  _research I will bring to post-WW2 fic will be next level_ , I promise you.



**The Bad (Varying Degrees of WTF)**

  * No Etta or the gang. They (minus Chief, potentially) are long buried. The 20s was the decade being thrown around before, and I loved that SO MUCH because it would mean Etta. Unless they’re reincarnating everyone, RIP Miss Candy.
  * Bringing back Steve Trevor is a delicate damned thing. 
  * Best case scenario is for Steve to be brought back by god meddling/magic. Bad magic = WinterSoldier!Steve, which I like as a concept but would totally make the  _Captain America_ parallels just outrageous. Good magic = Reincarnated Steve. Like a great-great nephew or cousin or something who has or can have access to his memories as Steve Trevor from 1918. Aphrodite brought Steve back in the comics and melded two versions of Steve into one, so there’s precedent. Best magic = Steve Trevor of 1918 just sort of, poof, reappearing to aid Diana in some way on her mission.
  * Worst case scenario is that Steve is a descendant with no magic involved and we’re just supposed to buy him being identical and Diana having  _a type_. …No thanks? We’d need to fix-it fic the hell out of that scenario.
  * I WANT STEVE IN THE PRESENT DAY. BECAUSE IN THE PRESENT DAY THERE IS A CHANCE FOR HE AND DIANA TO FIND A HAPPY ENDING. Like??? Present day Steve as a part of ARGUS helping out the Justice League is the perfect fit. It’s what his character does best, outside of loving and supporting Diana. Why wouldn’t you have him in the present?
  * Like, if there’s magic meddling and 1918 Steve is brought back for a short period of time to tempt/fight Diana or help her with one mission, then, yeah, we can send him back to the Underworld and possibly get him back for good/a reincarnation later (credit to [@highsmith](https://tmblr.co/mIvWNDT6gO8srDDjkvJiA1g) for that concept). Maybe he earns his reincarnation through the events of the movie, and that’s why he’s of age in the present day? Plausible for fic but meh for a movie.
  * Listen, there is a decent chance this creative team could hit just the right notes and sell a sorta dumb bring-back-Steve-Trevor concept based on an amazing execution. But it could all go so wrong easily.
  * I would have preferred a WW2 without Steve Trevor (minus like a flashback or a cameo as a ghost or something, maybe) so that we could have Wondy stand on her own for a movie and then let him come back as her hero’s reward in WW3. Maybe that’s an obvious plot choice, but it’s the most satisfying one in my book.
  * On that topic, where on earth does this leave  _Wonder Woman 3_? Present day, I guess? Or will they pull an  _Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom_  and go back to another decade? That would…not make for a satisfying trilogy of movies. I have so many questions.



**The Ugly (Dumpster Fire Scenarios)**

  * If they go the lookalike descendant route, they might throw in a “Steve Trevor had a secret son” curve ball and LORD PLEASE NO ANYTHING BUT THAT. Like? Either it’s a secret love child, dumb, or “oops never mentioned I’m a widowed father,” asinine, or  _Steve Trevor, feminist, left the mother of his child, NEVER!_
  * _WHAT IF NEW!STEVE IS A FUCKBOY??????????????????????????? DO NOT CHARACTER ASSASSINATE HIM TO DIFFERENTIATE HIM FROM STEVE TREVOR, ACTUAL SAINT. DO NOT DO THIS TO ME. WONDER WOMAN (2009) AND THE JOSS WHEDON CURSED SCRIPT WERE BAD ENOUGH. DON’T DO THIS. DO NOT._
  * This is my legitimate worst fear — Any and all continuity will be thrown out the window in the interests of making a “great Wonder Woman movie” as opposed to a sequel to  _Wonder Woman. I respect the sentiment but please don’t._ I do not care about the DCEU to be totally honest. But it would be a crying shame for it to become a continuity  _mess_  like the X-Men franchise. Like, have respect for your shared universe. ON TOP OF THAT, have respect for your own movie.  _Wonder Woman_  bookended in the present day. Diana is clearly sans Steve. She’s clearly mourning the 1918 version of him. Like, find a way to make that make sense. Don’t just shrug it off.



To sum up, I like the concept of a sequel to  _Wonder Woman_  set in the 80s but I am anywhere from nervous to TERRIFIED about the execution. Patty Jenkins is amazing and the writers for WW1 were so lovely, I hate to mistrust them. But I feel like they couldn’t have picked a more precarious time period continuity-wise. I’m excited to find out more. We shall see.


	7. wonder woman + chief

Found [this article](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bleedingcool.com%2F2017%2F06%2F04%2Frepresentation-matters-chief-wonder-Woman-awesome&t=OGE1YTM4ZGUzMjY3NDU0MDY3OTAzZDdiMDhiMWRlZjY5Mzg1NzcxZSxoaVJqTktBVw%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F161478488435%2Fwonder-woman-chief&m=1) about Chief! The interview is really nice, it’s a great quick read. Here are some facts about Chief plus some extra research:

The language he speaks to Diana is Blackfoot, probably Kainai dialect since Eugene Brave Rock is a member of the Kainai Nation in Alberta. They are part of the Blackfoot Confederacy. The Kainai are called “the Many-Chief people,” so that’s cool.

However, if we’re meant to take his comment about Steve’s people literally, then Chief might be a member of the Piegan Blackfeet in Montana. If that’s the case, then he might have been obliquely referring to the 1870 Marias Massacre.

According to the article, Chief introduces himself as Napi, the name of a trickster/storytelling demigod. And according to Wikipedia, the Blackfoot have a tradition of “manly-hearted women” who take on the societal role of men.


	8. wondertrev + consent

Okay, so I’m  _Officially Obsessed With Wonder Woman_  the way I haven’t been since I read comics back in jr. high, so I’m listening to all the podcasts at work. 

And I listened to one called [“Is Wonder Woman Too Woke?”](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fftw.usatoday.com%2F2017%2F06%2Fpodcast-is-wonder-woman-too-woke-plus-whole-foods-matt-harvey-and-the-worst-sports&t=ZGVhMzA1OWIwZjM0ZTU4NGUxNWY4N2QzNGU2MmI2MTVmZGIyMDhlMixlOGtLYkxIaw%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F162028677135%2Fwonder-woman-consent&m=1) and one from [Nerdstalking](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.podomatic.com%2Fpodcasts%2Fnerdstalking%2Fepisodes%2F2017-06-13T11_32_38-07_00&t=MmNhNmIzMjU4NGRiZjZmMzNmMGYyYjM0ODk4YzJmNGQzNGM1Mjk1NCxlOGtLYkxIaw%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F162028677135%2Fwonder-woman-consent&m=1). BOTH of them make the criticism that Steve Trevor is “too woke.” The latter says they want Steve Trevor to be “sleazier.”

Take a moment and let that sink in.

According to these three straight white dudes, Steve Trevor’s character isn’t realistic or enjoyable because he doesn’t pursue Diana enough. Like? The fuck?

Bottom line: Consent  _isn’t_  sexy to those people.

The male hetero fantasy they buy into is a power trip — meeting an Amazon and sleazing on her until she gives up the goods. The Joss Whedon Script of Kill It With Fire would be their perfect film.

ALL THE FUCK YOUS.

#notallmen my ass.

*The “Too Woke?” podcast will make you rage out for all the reasons. The dude knowingly and flat-out objects to PTSD and people of color interfering in his superhero movie because he thinks it’s “too much,” like showing a diversity of realistic experience can serve no other purpose except pandering.

ETA: One of the creators of Nerdstalking wrote back to me and said they’d address my points in their next podcast. Will they walk back their petition for more sleaze??? We shall see!


	9. wonder woman + blame

_Wonder Woman_  is the story of a demigoddess who wants to save the world coming to terms with  _why_  it should be saved. In hero stories, the default is always that these are innocent people and therefore they deserve to live. 

But what if they’re not innocent? What if  _no one is_.

That’s the complicating factor that  _Wonder Woman_  presents. It’s a beautiful, tragic/hopeful nod to the complex reality of war and peace. This is a long one but bear with me. I promise it goes someplace interesting.

> _**Diana:** Once I find and destroy Ares, the German armies will be freed from his influence, and they will be good men again, and the world will be better.  
>  _

This is Diana’s mission statement. She believes the stories her mother told her about men’s innocent nature whole-heartedly and will do anything to return them to that state.

> _**Diana:** Who took this from your people?  
>  **Chief:**  [Guestures to Steve] His people._

Steve introduces himself to Diana as “one of the good guys.” But, as much as she comes to know his goodness and integrity, she also comes to know him as a liar, a killer, and a smuggler. Now he’s implicated in genocide. He’s the one of the bad guys in someone else’s story.

> _**Luddendorf:** Peace is just an armistice in an endless war._

The writers took some artistic license with this so-called quote from Thucydides, but it accomplishes two things. One, it shows that Diana has been well-tutored in ancient philosophies of war. Two, it sets up the idea of an armistice as a negative outcome of war. Since we have the benefit of history, as viewers we  _know_  the WWI Armistice is a  _direct cause_ of WWII. 

> __**Diana:**  They don’t deserve our help, Steve!  
>  **Steve:**  It’s not about deserve! Maybe we don’t! But it’s not about that, it’s about what you believe. You don’t think I get it after what I’ve seen out there? You don’t think I wish I could tell you it was one bad guy to blame? It’s not! We’re all to blame.  
>  **Diana:**  I am not.  
>  **Steve:**  But maybe I am. Please. If you believe that this war should stop, if you want to stop it, help me stop it. Right now.

This is Steve Trevor’s mission statement. He understands that people can be evil, but he still doesn’t want thousands more to die. As a soldier, he has done horrible things in this war and others. He has perpetuated the endless fighting — an inch gained in WWI is two inches that have to be reclaimed. And yet. This war _has to stop, and Steve will do anything in his limited power to stop it._

> _**Chief:** [Looking at the aircraft] What is it?  
>  **Steve:** The future._

Steve looks at the plane full of explosive chemicals and describes it as, “The future.” The future holds more horrors than even The War to End all Wars imagined.  _He_   _knows this_. But he still believes in sacrificing his life to save today. To save the very people who will use these kinds of weapons in the future. That is goddamn tragic and beautiful and  _unsettling_.

> _**Ares:** They start these wars on their own. All I do is orchestrate an armistice that I know they cannot keep in the hopes that they will destroy themselves. But it has never been enough. Until you._

Ares is not responsible for WWI. I don’t understand the confusion around this because the screenwriters say it blatantly. Diana is right that Ares is involved, but he is “not who [she] thought [he] was.” He  _isn’t_ to blame. He isn’t a mind-controller; he’s a whisperer. He hasn’t infiltrated human society to become an emperor, only an advisor. Humans are to blame, and humans will be their own undoing. Ares is trying to prove himself right, so, of course, he wouldn’t directly intervene whether or not he could.

> _**Ares:**  Yes, Diana! Take them all! Finally, you see. Look at this world. Mankind did this. Not me! They are ugly, filled with hatred. Weak! Just like your Captain Trevor, gone and left you nothing. Pathetic He deserved to burn. _

Diana suffers loss, and she strikes out — a vengeful god. Ares is gleeful. He has to undermine what Steve means to her so that she will complete her transformation into Destroyer God, Hater of Humans. That, of course, pisses her off. So he tries another tact. Nevermind Steve, what about the worse possible vision of humanity? 

> _**Ares:** Look at her [Maru] and tell me I’m wrong! She is the perfect example of these humans and unworthy of your sympathy in every way. You know that she deserves it. They all do. Do it! _

A woman who kills in horrific ways for pleasure. Someone who poisoned herself, mind, body, and soul. She  _does_ deserve to die. She’s a psychopath with no redeeming qualities (props to the actress, though, for her epic villain laugh). And yet Diana chooses not to destroy her. 

Now, Diana  _does_  kill. It’s part of her character. But she  _does not kill when she doesn’t have to_. If she were in a dire situation where Maru  _has_  to be killed to save others, you betcha she’s going down. But Ares is asking Diana to be judge, jury, and executioner. The thing is, she  _can be_. She is not to blame. But she  _won’t_. Because Steve, her representative of humanity, loves her and believes she can save the world. It’s a promise between them. And a promise is unbreakable.

> _**Diana:** You’re wrong about them. They’re everything you say but so much more.   
>  **Ares:**  Lies! They do not deserve your protection!  
>  **Diana:**  It’s not about deserve. It’s about what you believe. And I believe in love._

Let’s talk about the elephant in the room here. This screenplay has taken Greek mythology and twisted it into a Christian parable. Turn the other cheek. Love thine enemy. All that jazz. But separate from that, Diana’s choice to love is the right one because of what it represents about our own history.

At the end of WWI, the Allies win. They believe with everything they have that the people of the Central powers  _deserve_  to pay for the carnage and destruction. Despite people like Vera Britton advocating for both sides to realize that war itself is the evil and an armistice at such a steep cost cannot possibly lead to lasting peace, the Allies take their pound of flesh. And so the German people let a genocidal maniac take over their country. That’s a bit of simplification, but do some Googling and the gist is there.

Now, what happened after WWII? The Allies rebuilt East/West Germany. The Allies rebuilt Japan. WWII was objectively  _more horrible and deadly_  than WWII, but, afterward, there was no armistice. (There wasn’t peace, either. The deconstruction of colonialism in the midst of the Cold War saw to that.) But WWIII hasn’t happened yet. Nuclear weapons haven’t been used again. Chemical weapons use is treated as a horrific act, not an everyday incident.  _That’s huge_. 

War is perpetual as long as we perpetuate it. Everyone has a justification. And, yes, no justice, no peace. Sometimes you have to go to war to make things right. But at some point, the passing along of blame  _has to stop or there will never be peace_. The hardest thing in the world is to love your enemy if they have wronged you. The hardest thing on this earth is convincing people to love each other enough to share their wealth, their privilege, their protection, their lives. It seems impossible to teach people who hate to love. But, in the end,  _that’s only thing that will save us._

Ares represents hate. He  _hates_  humans for reasons even Diana acknowledges as valid. But Diana can know and understand that hatred without giving into it. She has a complex view of human nature that allows her to retain her idealism. Hate doesn’t have the power here. Love does. That’s why she can destroy Ares. That’s why the German soldiers can breathe fresh air and hug strangers from the other side. In that moment and for a time after, love wins. 

As for the rest of this “century of horrors”? That’s “a different story altogether.”

> _**Diana:** I used to want to save the world. To end war and bring peace to mankind. But then I glimpsed a darkness that lives within their light, and learned that within every one of them there will always be both. A choice each much make for themselves. Something no hero will ever defeat. And now I know that only love can truly save the world._

The thesis of this film is that war makes everyone complicit. Everyone is to blame. There are no innocents for a divine hero like Diana to save. But she does what she can because she believes in us and our better angels. Yeah, this is just a superhero movie. But that  _is_  an important message, and, sadly, an all-too-rare one.


	10. wonder woman + why so christian?

One of the  _very few_ things that make me go :/ at Wonder Woman (2017) is the blatant Christian allegory. Like, can’t we have a story of good and evil without dragging Lucifer into it? I’ve seen Dogma, et al., I get it. It’s not fair to the  ~~angels~~  gods that  ~~God~~  Zeus loves humans best of all even though we suck. 

Given, ya know, Greek mythology, Zeus with a New Testament God-like demeanor is…a super odd character choice, to put it mildly. On first blush, it’s easy to chalk this choice up to the Hollywood penchant for making paganism palatable by giving it monotheistic touches.

But I realized there are some compelling, in-universe reasons why a Christian allegory fits into a story that is supposed to be quote-unquote Ancient Greek. The reasons are part historical, part mathematical, and part postmodern.

Let’s look at the facts:

  * The civilization we know as Ancient Greece had its heyday from 800-146 BCE, roughly. 
  * The Roman Republic/Empire absorbed Greek mythology when it became the new regional power, went Christian 300-400 CE, and had power until 476, when it fell.
  * The Holy Roman Empire hung on, especially in the East (♪ ♫  _Now it’s Istanbul, not Constantinople_  ♫ ♬), and there were Catholics and Orthodox, etc., etc.



When Batman vs. Superman came out, Gal Gadot did an interview claiming Diana is [5,000 years old](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinemablend.com%2Fnew%2FHow-Wonder-Woman-Batman-V-Superman-108237.html&t=MTY2Mzg0MmFlNjFiM2VkNjkwZGZmYjMyODBjNTljOTE1N2I3NDE3YyxMeEtjaFBMbQ%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F163237631595%2Fwonder-woman-why-so-christian&m=1). That would put her birth around 3000 BCE. Generously, you could say Greek mythology developed around 900 BCE. If you’re going for a modernist take that, yes, Zeus is  _for real real_ , then, okay, Diana could be the daughter of Zeus, and the Amazons could have fallen into myth by 900 BCE, tucked away in Themyscira for millennia. 

**But. Patty Jenkins says Diana is a whole lot younger —[800 years old, in fact](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cinemablend.com%2Fnews%2F1666409%2Fhow-old-wonder-woman-actually-is-according-to-patty-jenkins&t=MDRhYzk5NmRkMzhhOWRhNWJiYWQ1Y2ZkODJmMGQ0NDYzMjg5ODNkNyxMeEtjaFBMbQ%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F163237631595%2Fwonder-woman-why-so-christian&m=1). **

**Option #1:** Time works differently on Themyscira. At some point in Antiquity, the Amazons were frozen in time and 800 Themysciran years have passed since then.

 **Option #2:** Time works the same on Themyscira,andDiana was born in 1100 CE — *record scratch*

How would that make sense? Well, it  _could actually explain a few things_.

**1\. Amazonian Multiculturalism**

Diana is a Roman name. Why/how would Hippolyta name her daughter after the Romanized version of the goddess Artemis? Why does Amazonian armor look so Roman? Well, by 1100 CE, the Amazons may have been clinging to their Ancient Greek ways, but they would have also been blended by then. If you notice, all the Amazons coming out of the sea are white. When it comes time for the rebellion, they’re multi-ethnic. Amazons have had a long, long history that has clearly not been isolated to Greece.

**2\. Why Diana Isn’t More Weirded Out By Europe**

Sure, our lady Di has her fish-out-of-water moments (revolving doors!), but she rolls with the big stuff really well (the barbarians have their own cities!). If her tutors had access to information up until 1100, she’d be much better off in terms of understanding cultural norms and scientific principles (like formulas). [Aside: I like to headcanon that Amazonian scholars/priestesses are given information about the outside world by Athena in the form of prophetic dreams that are interpreted in fun, mixed-up ways.]

**3\. The Whole Christian Thing (+ Where’d the Goddesses Go?)**

In Rome, Christianity was adopted first by slaves. Why? Because the narrative of Christianity (borrowed from Hebrew tradition) is deliverance from slavery and rebellion against authority (Book of Revelation = Down with the Roman Empire). The Amazons are a people enslaved. I can definitely see the foremothers listening to the early Christian converts and being like, “I like the gist of this. Let’s take some elements.” And then Amazons who were raised Christian adding more to the mythology. 

Meanwhile, the postmodern view of gods — that their power and stories are determined by believers — changes the gods themselves. Sure, the gods exist in physical form before they are killed by Ares, but how they exist is predicated on how they are remembered. The Amazons are the last to hold onto the old gods. Greek mythology is all lost and muddied — so here come New Testament Zeus and Morning Star Ares. Maybe Ares tries to ally with the Amazons against man, but they, like Diana, could never be a part of wiping out mankind, no matter how evil they are. So Zeus rewards them with Themyscira. And the Amazons keep Zeus and the other gods “alive” through worship out of thanks.

**4\. Diana’s Aging**

800 years go by, with Diana aging slowly into her prime. As a demigod, she would also be subject to  _some_  believers’ desires, and her mother so wants her to remain a child forever. The day she gains access to her light/blast/demigod powers is the day she comes of age, maybe the physical age she’ll stay forever.

So, there you go. Theory.

Myself, I kind of like a blend of Option #1 & Option #2. Like, some time during the late Roman Empire, the Amazons went into isolation and Themyscira time  _almost_  tracks with human time but not quite. 

Thoughts? As always, my meta is fair game for fic, musings, etc.


	11. wonder woman + too much steve trevor?

The question of whether there’s too much Steve Trevor in Wonder Woman (2017) is a [good one](http://blueincandescence.tumblr.com/post/162177104025/i-hate-to-say-this-because-im-a-wondertrev-stan). The idea is that, yeah, Chris Pine is great and all, but is he too good? Is his character, the designated love interest, having a personality, character arc, and agency unfair given how superhero love interests are perceived to be shunted to the side?

Let’s explore.

**#1. Falling in Love with an Equal Makes a Protagonist Stronger**

Narratives where the love interest isn’t fleshed out diminish the hero and the hero’s journey. Stardust is a great deconstruction of the pervasive trope of “dude does a hard thing for a pretty girl.” …But like why? If the protagonist’s motivation is shallow, if the reasons for the protagonist to care about the love interest are shallow, the character seems shallow. It’s bad writing, pure and simple. I don’t want my Wonder Woman movie to have bad writing just because most other movies do.

**#2. Steve Trevor Isn’t Really Her Equal**

Best part is, Diana doesn’t really start to actually fall in love with Steve (I think) until he joins her across No Man’s Land. He isn’t her equal in strength or heroism, but he does the impossible led by her example. She admires that. Better still, Steve recognizes that he isn’t Diana’s equal. “Or maybe not,” the look he gives after Diana tells the boys to stay there, the, “You did this” — Steve Trevor Gets It. They aren’t equals. She’s a thousand miles above him, but, damn it, he’s a pilot, and he’s gotta try to keep up.

Remember, this is the guy who sacrificed his life: “I can save today. You can save the world.” He knows she’s destined for bigger and better things than he is. And he wishes they had more time together, but he knows her place is fighting the good fight.

**#3. Steve Trevor is an Example of Efficiency in Writing**

There is a lot of Steve in this movie, true. And some part of the creation of Steve as a multilayered character is because this is a male character — but it’s also damned efficient writing. And because there is so much Steve, we get more Diana. Hear me out. Steve is a shortcut. 

The plot calls for characters to be Diana’s: love interest (universal storytelling), McGuffin (reason for leaving the island), guide to the outside world (without falling into the [Born Sexy Yesterday Trope](http://blueincandescence.tumblr.com/post/161346013980/wonder-woman-and-subverting-born-sexy-yesterday)), voice of cynicism (is Ares real? suspense!), and morality pet (it’s not about deserve). That’s five characters. Etta is Diana’s backup guide and the boys (the squad?) are her backup cynics and morality pets. But the movie would need far more time to develop these characters if it wanted us to be as emotionally invested in the deliverer of each of these messages. Do I want more Etta Candy? Hell yes! But that’s time taken away from Diana because of the extra character work needed. Steve’s audience goodwill builds on itself. (Although, like I said, I wanted more Etta, drastically more. Same for all the Amazons. And, like, random girls and women on the street. And nurses! More nurses!) 

Imagine if it weren’t Steve Diana thinks Ares has corrupted. If it weren’t Steve supplicating himself and begging Diana, a goddess, for help. Imagine if it weren’t Steve sacrificing himself at the end. Do we care? Yeah, sure, a little. But chances are higher that we care more when these things happen because we have had more time with Steve, so we know he’s not all good or all bad, but he’s doing his best. Like people.

**#4. Steve Trevor is a Needed Symbol in the Mortal-God Relationship**

In the end, Steve’s most important narrative role is this — he’s a symbol of why humans are worth fighting for, a touchstone for Diana to come back to. Not because Steve, mortal guy she fell in love with [over a week or two](http://blueincandescence.tumblr.com/post/161695023080/wondertrev-timeline), is the be-all-and-end-all of her life or the only reason she doesn’t hate humans.

Let’s remember, Diana already denied Ares. He asked her to join him in ridding the planet of these meddling humans, but she “could never be a part of something like that.” That’s when Ares attacked. Sure, grief overtook her when she died, but it’s the loss of Steve and the senselessness of the violence that humans unleash on each other. She goes after the soldiers who put the bomb on that plane and made Steve make that choice. It isn’t blind rage, it’s a (demi)god’s wrath. ([See this post for my take on the ending scene](http://blueincandescence.tumblr.com/post/162493047190/wonder-woman-blame)). Of course, she realizes she’s playing into Ares’ hand and remembers Steve’s advice. She believes him now because he made the ultimate sacrifice — and how does a mortal prove themselves to any god?. 

Now he belongs to her. She carries his words and his talisman (watch) with her. Part of her, sure, wants ice-cream and breakfasts and to know what it’s like to do what people do when there are no wars to fight. But there  _are_  wars to fight. And she’ll fight them. And when she doubts, she’ll think of the one who sacrificed himself believing with all his heart that she could save the world. Love is strength, and he lends her that after death. I get that it’s hard to see past the man-woman dynamic, but the movie is giving us a mortal-god dynamic. We just need to recognize it.

**#5. Love Interests Should All Be Feminist Takes**

Patty wanted Steve because (a) he’s arguably one of the most consistent things across Wonder Woman’s mythology (b) women should not be denied universal storytelling. The presence of a man does not diminish a woman, amen. Loving-and-losing is a time-tested way of bringing maturity to a character. Usually, this is called “manpain” or “fridging” — the female character is killed off to motivate a male hero. Here, it’s reversed, but Steve at least gets agency in the way he dies. This is a good example for writers who want to kill off a character but can’t think of how to do it without undermining the character. 

In general, Steve is a positive template for every superhero love interest going forward. He’s a feminist love interest because feminism isn’t flipping the script on misogyny. It’s throwing misogyny out the window and building something equal from scratch. I don’t want to watch a movie where it’s back-and-forth “he’s on top, now she’s on top,” spokes on a wheel. I want my movies to break the wheel (ha, sorry, had paraphrase the Mother of Dragons).

**#6. Audiences Read More Into Male Characters Than Female**

Ask yourself this: is Steve Trevor really that fleshed out? Or does he just have a penis? Sure he gets to do a bunch of stuff, but his character doesn’t change so much as respond to Diana’s evolving character. He’s clearly subordinate to her arc, so why all the hand-wringing?

I swear to Athena, anytime a female character has or is a love interest, suddenly people become blind to all her character nuances and arc and agency — if they even bothered to look in the first place. It’s honestly so frustrating. For all my complaints about the DCEU (and they are legion), it does not sideline female love interests. Lois Lane gets shit done, she’s treated with respect and makes her own decisions. Even Harley goddamn Quinn, the poster-girl for unhealthy relationships, makes small moves toward breaking out of that mold in Suicide Squad. And outside of that, CEO Pepper Potts doesn’t take shit from Tony Stark. The Wasp’s defining trait is that she’s more capable than Ant-Man. Jane Foster may be written out of Thor, but at least she’s getting a Nobel. Etc., etc.

Like, we actually are getting some meaty or at least accomplished female love interests — we need more and they need more screen time, for sure, but let’s stop dismissing female characters as “boring love interests” in favor of plumbing the depths of characterization for “male side character #1453.” That is honestly my biggest pet peeve of fandom. “It’s not our fault we don’t write meta and fic for more (especially POC) female characters! The creators don’t give us interesting ones!” As if most of the “interesting” parts of any of their exclusively (white) male faves aren’t 75% fanon. Half the reason I never jumped on the Pine/Kirk bandwagon was all the shit Uhura got dragged through because she had the audacity to be the love interest for Spock. I see you.

**#7. We Got a Steve That Made Unimaginative People Uncomfortable**

[How many articles have been written about Steve being too “woke?”](http://blueincandescence.tumblr.com/post/162028677135/wonder-woman-consent) Like, there are people who believe the fact that Steve isn’t a sleazeball who learns some manners is a character flaw. Excuse me while I barf. We have to deal with that storyline all the damn time and it is so tired (*cough* Guardians of the Galaxy *cough*). In Wonder Woman (2009), Steve Trevor is a misogynistic bro who gets a tiny bit better by the end, but you’re still left wondering why the hell Diana would give him the time of day. Loving that version of Steve Trevor makes Diana look weak. The Wonder Woman (2017) version of Steve is selfless and charming. He doesn’t need to be taught that women should be respected because he already knows. You get why Diana cares, you care about him (usually), and caring for him doesn’t cost Diana or the audience anything in terms of dignity.

I don’t want a movie that makes me actively hate Steve Trevor just so Diana gets to spout some overwritten girl power catchphrases. If this were a movie where it’s all “Girl Power, She Sure Showed Him!” or even “Wonder Woman Had to Have a Weakling/Milquetoast Love Interest to Look Strong in Comparison,” then these unimaginative people would get their misogynistic/misandrist movie and feel good about how the world works. Well, screw them. 

Instead, we got Steve Trevor, Feminist Fantasy. And, yeah, it’s obnoxious hearing so much praise heaped on Pine, and it’s [agonizing imagining the writers bending over backward to bring him back somehow](http://blueincandescence.tumblr.com/post/162886512165/wondertrev-the-eighties). But for this movie, I think we got the amount of Steve Trevor we needed to make it work.


	12. wondertrev + chris pine in WW2

_anonymous  asked:_

_Steve Trevor brought me here but now I find myself reading all your work- meta and otherwise. You've a distinct, interesting voice.(if that makes sense). Very impressive. Do you think Pine will be back in the next movie as the Steve we know and adore? This anticipation is killing me. Patty needs to put us out of our misery, one way or the other. lol. But seriously, it was Steve's character that a lot of us loved. I don't think someone else played by Pine will have the same effect._

 

Well, thank you, Anon! 

This is the eternal question for wondertrev fans, isn’t it? Will Pine be back in Wonder Woman 2? And  _how_  will he be back?

I’m of the opinion that Chris Pine will  _definitely_  be back for Wonder Woman 2 in some capacity. 

As I’ve said before, my preference would be for Steve to be a flashback or some kind of force ghost (or what have you) in WW2 and then back for WW3 (if that’s the last in the trilogy) for some measure of a Happily Ever After (with some capacity for angst because then we’ll have fic fuel, gotta have it). 

I would not be surprised, however, if Chris Pine is a major character again in WW2. Pine is a big draw (plus Patty and Gal adore him) and Steve Trevor is being put back in his place as Diana’s One True Love Interest. It seems like a good possibility. 

_If_  this is the case, I agree that I want and  _need_  Steve Trevor’s character to stay intact. The easiest way to assure this is to make him the same character, saved through magic or meddling. I would be 100% down for that.  _But_  I am  _not at all_  opposed to modern!Steve  _if_  he is at his core the same good dude. So, yeah, Chris Pine playing Macho Steve Trevor the Dick — that would completely turn me off. Just ugh. But Chris Pine playing Steve Trevor, feminist flyboy, who just happened (shout out to the patrons!) to be (re)born a hundred years later? And who has access to his past life? SIGN ME UP.  _For it._

To recap the Rs of Possibility, in order of my own personal preference:

  1. **Reincarnated Steve**  — physically and soulfully(?) the same, with some angst getting his past life memories back
  2. **Resurrected Steve** — mentally, physically, and soulfully the same
  3. **Replicated Steve**  — only physically the same



The reason I like #1 so much is that it keeps them as equals. Diana has changed so much in 100 years. A modern reincarnation of Steve would also have some different perspectives on things. Those perspectives could complement/challenge each other — which is the dynamic I like so much from the first film.

With #2, what would Steve’s role be? Narratively, he would be a throwback. If Diana lost some essential part of herself, then Steve would be the catalyst to make her embrace who she used to be. That’s a fine narrative, but, too easily, a throwback Steve could be placed in a situation of judgment (icky). As we saw at the end of WW, Diana has made peace with who she was then and who she is now. I think moving her character forward instead of back is more interesting.

#3 is just…what’s the point? A warm body? Eh. They’d still look good together, but, yeah, I can’t imagine the fan reaction would be the same.

Thanks for the question, Anon!


	13. justice league + non-spoilery thoughts

It’s fine. 

**Overall**

  * I laughed in some parts, cringed in others. 
  * I thought it looked cool in some parts and meh in others. 
  * I appreciate how the ending monologue means we can have a more upbeat DCEU in the future, but it was hokey and didn’t actually fit with the events we saw on screen. 
  * I liked all the characters and felt for them, but Joss Whedon hit copy/paste on a bunch of dialogue and moments he wasn’t able to cram into  _Avengers: Age of Ultron_. 



**Diana**

  * It was so distracting hearing Diana Prince saying lines Joss probably wrote for Natasha Romanoff: Team Mom. Very evocative of “I’m always picking up after you boys,” the kind of shit I gave a pass for in AoU but now I’m honestly So Tired.
  * Haha, “Diana’s hot and men don’t know how to act around her” was the joke  _several_  times over. Like, Joss, your issues, dude. They Are Showing.
  * The camera lived between Gal Gadot’s legs. It was egregious. There was one shot in particular, in her civilian biker chick getup, that got so close between her legs the man two seats from me grunted. (Apologists will talk about the shirtless shots of men, and, yes, thanks for that, but Buff Torsos are a male power fantasy. I didn’t see any lingering dick shots).
  * I appreciated the nod toward trying to justify why Diana would stay in the shadows for so long. It’s not comprehensive, but it’s better than nothing.
  * A century later, the memory of Steve Trevor is very much alive for Diana.



**DCEU**

_Man of Steel_  and  _Batman vs. Superman_  are very difficult to slog through and have too many plot holes to count.  _Justice League_  has no plot holes because it has no plot. (I’m literally having writer’s block on a fic right now because I’m worried the ending confrontation is too easy for my characters. This film did not spend one moment worrying about that. Like, not a moment.)  _Justice League_ , therefore, is easy to get through.

tl;dr: It’s fine.


	14. wonder woman 2 + "new" love interest rumor

Hi, did you see the new Patty Jenkin's interview? She hinted at new romance for Diana in WW2. What do you think of that? Personally, I'd be cool with a woman (as long as Steve's place in her life is not affected) but no other men. I mean how can any other man top Steve? Just not possible.

 

Hi, Anon! I did see the interview. Originally, there was something about a “new love interest” in the title but Patty Jenkins posted this on Twitter: 

Collider has since changed its headline, if not the URL: [http://collider.com/wonder-woman-2-new-love-story-patty-jenkins/](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fcollider.com%2Fwonder-woman-2-new-love-story-patty-jenkins%2F&t=NDNjNzg1MGNkMzU0NzcyNWJlZDkwNDEzY2NiNzNmMmQ4N2I2MDU5Myx2Q2dDYm95Vw%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F168083296130%2Fhi-did-you-see-the-new-patty-jenkins-interview&m=1)

When I first saw the headline, I felt (and feel) the same as you. GIVE ME BARBARA OR GIVE ME DEATH. Steve Trevor is  _the_   _only_   _man_  worthy of Diana of Themyscira. 

Now that Patty confirmed the quote she gave was misinterpreted, I’m even more convinced that Steve Trevor is coming back. Here’s the original Jenkins quote:

> “…It’s got great fun from the start and great big superhero presence from the start, and is funny and  **a great love story again**  and a couple new unbelievable characters who I’m so excited about, who are very different than were in the last movie.”

**Interpretation #1:**  The love interest is new. Except Patty seems to have all but called that a false assumption — why else respond? Could be that she’s in neither conform-nor-deny mode but it  _could_  be that she’s heading off disappointment for no Steve Trevor return (see: winky face). 

**Interpretation #2:**  A love story doesn’t have to mean romantic love. It could be a love story about friendship or Diana’s love for the world. Obviously, these elements  _will_ be present again in WW2, so WW2 could play these elements up and a traditional romantic love interest could be absent. I’d be a-okay with this.

**Interpretation #3:**  The use of _again_  makes me squee! What if, what if, what if!!! Patty made it clear that she thinks a romance is important for any superhero story. Patty also loves Chris Pine and clearly respects the character of Steve Trevor. Patty gives very few shits about the continuity of the DCEU. And, since Justice League didn’t, neither do I anymore! So fuck it! Bring back Chris Pine in the 80s or 40s or 2100s! Kill him again! Bring him back again! I’ll love it all!

In conclusion, I am very hopeful for the return of feminist flyboy Steve Trevor. :D


	15. wonder woman + comics recs

[shaysh180](http://shaysh180.tumblr.com/) asked:

Hi! I really want to start reading the wonder woman comics but i don't really know where to start, i was wondering if you have any recommendations... love your blog, btw :)

 

[ ](http://shaysh180.tumblr.com/)

Hey hey hey! Thanks so much! :D

I’m someone who picked up a few issues of various Wonder Woman and Justice League comics over the years and browsed through the classic Wonder Woman panels but never read full arcs. 

That’s why I decided to begin with  _Rebirth_. [The first four volume](http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fs%2Fref%3Dnb_sb_noss%3Furl%3Dsearch-alias%253Daps%26field-keywords%3Drebirth%2Bwonder%2Bwoman%26rh%3Di%253Aaps%252Ck%253Arebirth%2Bwonder%2Bwoman&t=MmEzZTc3MzI4N2UwZDNkNzRlNWFmNmEyNjk1N2M2OTMxNTViZWMzNCxnS1JVbmczZg%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F168084688695%2Fhi-i-really-want-to-start-reading-the-wonder&m=1)s tell a complete story arc (I don’t buy single issues or uncompleted arcs because I don’t want to end up stopping out of nowhere or going on forever). I’m stopping with that as a very, very, very satisfied customer until I know what’s going on with the next arc. But, honestly, I ADORE THIS COMIC. I recommend reading #2, #4, #1, #3 since the volumes jump back and forth between a new classic origin story for Wonder Woman and the present day of the DC comics universe. I love the art, I love the story, and I love the way it combines Diana’s different origins/retcons into one single narrative. I poked around looking for the best place to start, and I definitely think I made the right choice!

I’m also reading  _DC Bombshells_  in six volumes. The Wonder Woman stuff is glorious, but all in the first volume. After that, Wonder Woman has a smaller role but I don’t mind because I dig all the characters!

As for recommendations, I’m going to recommend the blog where I go for all my Wonder Woman comics needs. The theme here is wondertrev, but, honestly, the commentary is so, so invested in Diana! The collection of panels she has is wonderful!

> <http://heckyeahstevetrevor.tumblr.com/>

Happy reading!


	16. steve trevor mentions in justice league

anonymous asked:

Hi, I love reading your metas and I would love to hear your opinion on the criticisms that some people had with Diana and how she's still mourning Steve 100 years later at the end of WW and JL. These people think that Diana should be able to move on already and that it was out of character that Steve was the reason that she was holding back from leading people. Your thoughts?

 

So…this is from  _three months ago_.  _Many_  apologies, Anon! 

I just watched the [Honest Trailer for  _Justice League_](https://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DGABCneYEE84&t=N2MwNzJlOWMyMjliYmJmMzZhYWM1NjU0YjIzZTNlZWU0ODM4ODlkNyxBTnQ0aHlQVQ%3D%3D&b=t%3Afig-fyIelTxNRFoBfT5OqQ&p=http%3A%2F%2Fblueincandescence.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F171322808115%2Fhi-i-love-reading-your-metas-and-i-would-love-to&m=1), which makes this claim:

> There’s Wonder Woman, the three-dimensional hero turned girl hung up on her ex.

Which made me remember your very intriguing ask!

Let’s begin at the beginning. 

**Did Wonder Woman lose some of her dimension in _Justice League_? **

I’d agree. There is a benign explanation for this—in any team-up movie, the component characters have less dedicated story time. The not-so-benign explanation is as follows—the writers, producers, and directors of  _Justice League_  phoned it in. Like, to an insulting degree. The movie is okay, Diana is okay in it. But, as bright as Gal Gadot’s smile is, Diana simply doesn’t shine like she does in  _Wonder Woman_. 

**Now, is Diana merely hung up on her ex?**

It’s easy to be, like, yeah, Diana is less than awesome in this because she’s portrayed as the stereotypical Female Hero cutout. The ass shots, the boob falls, the characters hung up on her looks, the automatic Team Mom persona—all the tired misogyny that we know and disdain. With all that noise happening, it’s very easy to sweep the references to Steve Trevor into that bucket and not examine them for anything more than a female character, once again, being defined by a man.

**But I _like_  the references to Steve. **

Is it because I’m a shipper? For sure. But I’m a shipper for good reasons. Reasons that make these mentions salvageable even though they came from Joss Whedon’s pile of garbage feminism and  _Avengers_  scraps.

**Complaint #1—A Century of Mourning is Too Long**

So, Anon, the people you’re paraphrasing have been saying that it’s unrealistic or weak that Diana would be mourning Steve after all this time.

**Reasons I disagree:**

  * **Diana is an immortal.** For an immortal, a hundred years holds a different meaning than for mortals. Compared to life in Themyscira, the world of man is moving at a breakneck pace. Steve Trevor is a fixed point. Before Diana met him (before Antiope saved her life), she had no familiarity with the human concepts of time and death. Now she does, and it  _hurts_.
  * **Memory is a funny thing.** Let’s also consider that, as an immortal, Diana’s memories could be longer and sharper than a mortal’s, making Steve a lot less of an abstract concept.
  * **DC love interests humanize.** A lot has been said about the difference between DC and Marvel heroes, but the gist is that DC heroes are all gods (even if they’re not all literal ones). Superman and Wonder Woman need human love interests because they ground them. Is Superman viewed as weak because only Lois Lane can bring him back to himself? No. His capacity to love selfishly is his saving grace.  _So why the hell can’t we extend that same feeling to Wonder Woman and just let her feel???_
  * **Diana _deserves_  an epic love story. **A demi-goddess who holds the memory of her mortal lover in her heart long after he sacrificed himself for her? That’s epic! Not some half-hearted thing. I’ve accepted Patty Jenkins as my lord and savior because she  _understands_  that sentimentality is a  _strength_. Listen, the whole reason I want Steve Trevor to come back (other than the pleasure of watching Chris Pine swipe his hair out of his eyes again) is because  _how cool is that story?_ _Tragedy! Pathos! Magic! TRUE LOVE!_  Bring it the fuck on. Diana deserves it.



**Complaint #2—Steve Shouldn’t Have Kept Her From Leading**

The other point you bring up, Anon, is that people didn’t like the fact that Diana’s motivation for staying in the shadows is pinned on Steve Trevor.

**Reasons I like it:**

  1. **We needed some explanation**. Continuity-wise,  _Batman vs. Superman_  painted Diana into a corner. Why  _did_  she give up on people, hide in the shadows? We assumed the events of  _Wonder Woman_  would make her cynical, but that’s stupid so the movie rightly shows how Diana complicated her love for humanitybut did not lose it. So what’s a writer to do? Sorta split the difference and say she helped but she didn’t lead. Why? Because leaders get people killed. It makes enough sense out of something that could have been a continuity-ruiner, so I’ll take it.
  2. **Diana is a demi-goddess.** As a goddess, human sacrifice and worship is part of the symbolism. Steve sacrificed himself so that she could save the world. Diana has saved the world, but, in her estimation, she hasn’t taken any sacrifices by rallying people to her cause. Responsible godhood is a theme I’m glad we get little kernels of but I hope we’ll see it explored more explicitly. 
  3. **Grief is a shared Trinity character motivation.**  Yeah, I can hear these people say, but why did it have to be  _Steve_? To which I’ll say Batman and Superman get their morality pets, so let Diana have hers. In  _Batman vs. Superman_ , we hear all about how Superman is hung up on his father’s death. In the same film and every other one about Batman, we learn how much Bruce is affected by his parents’ deaths. Grief makes everyone in the DCEU tick. 



Counter-counter-argument—Why couldn’t this morality pet have been Antiope?Yeah, I would prefer a hundred times more Antiope. But this is actually a  _Wonder Woman_  problem. Antiope’s sacrifice is not given enough story time so the callback wouldn’t have been as strong for casual viewers.

So there you have it! Hope this lengthy response kinda makes up for the wait? A little? :)


	17. Steve Trevor + Return for WW2

anonymous asked:

hi! theres something i dont understand. lets say steve trevor comes back in a WW2. That still doesnt mean hes alive because he wasnt in justice league right?

 

Ah, the woes of a franchise. Your concern is definitely valid, Anon. It seems to be based on the substantiated rumor—but not 100% verified fact—that Wonder Woman 2 will take place in the DCEU’s past. 

The Cold War was kicking around as the setting. As much as Chris Pine can rock the 80s look, it’s problematic for him to be involved. To your point, he’s not around in Justice League—like, in morning for him not around. So he can’t be died-of-old-age-after-a-second-chance-at-life dead or actually-he’s-in-his-60s-now alive.

What does that leave us with? Tragedy. It would be a total bummer if Steve showed up only to be killed off again to make Justice League sorta work in the continuity. I say sorta because being like “oh, yeah, I shut myself off for a century because Steve died except for that one time in ‘83 when a reincarnated version of him found his way back to me for a week” doesn’t actually vibe. 

But here are some ways that Steve Trevor could be a part of WW2 without messing up the continuity and/or breaking our hearts:

1) The rumors were wrong and WW2 takes place after Justice League. This would be the most elegant solution to this conundrum.

2) WW2 takes place in the past and the present. I’d actually love a movie that was structured partially in the past. Like, in the 80s Diana and Cheetah got up to some shit and it connects with a threat she’s facing in present. That’d be neat. And then Steve can be part of the present storyline—or even her reward for a job well done.

3) Steve does participate in WW2 but in some kind of magic capacity. This would have made more sense if the rumors were true that Circe is the villain of WW2. She could magic him back to life in any timeframe, and most audience members wouldn’t blink. Phantom Steve could be a part of the plot knowing he has to go back to Hades or whatever at the end of the mission. Since he never was “alive” again it technically works, and it leaves room for him to be brought back by another Power.

For me, a reincarnated Steve Trevor (meaning he was born and lived a life before being reunited with Diana) should only happen one time, so it should happen in the present. That (hopefully) rules out reincarnation for a WW2 set entirely in the past.

A resurrected Steve Trevor has more possibilities because that kind of thing just screams supernatural intervention. You can play with that a little more and audiences will go with it. It also lets the writers have some fun with Greek myth. (A time-displaced Steve Trevor—meaning the Flash goes to get him for his pal D—works, too, but there are so many ways to mess it up and make it feel cheap. So I’m eh on that one.) Resurrections don’t have to be permanent, which would make more sense anyway and let us have our bittersweet romance with a possibility of a more permanent solution in the future.

All that to say, if WW2 is set in the past and Chris Pine is involved, I hope they go the resurrected-by-magic-for-a-short-period-of-time route!

Thanks for the question, Anon! 

 


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